Chad Kirchner (00:28)
Yes, Dr. Bashir, you are your own great grandfather. I keep wondering if they did that. I guess Futurama came out after that, so I wonder who stole the bit from who. But welcome back, everybody, to another episode of Temporal Investigations, my Star Trek podcast, me being Chad Kirshner, and all of my fancy mostly car journalist friends, though I've had some non-car journalist discussing here. But that's not today, friends.

I am pleased to ch have two newbies here. So I'll also have to ask them some very important Star Trek bona fides before we get deep into it, though if you're watching the video version, Byron is well, obvious he's he's got a his Lego Enterprise up on display. though I promise you that Steven is as as much of a trekkie. If not more, maybe. Who knows?

but for

Stephen Edelstein (01:28)
Yeah. I I got

some stuff up here too. I just it's not showing up right now because I'm bad at planning.

Chad Kirchner (01:32)
It's just off here, man.

Alright, so we'll start with Steven first. Mr. Stephen Adelstein, he is an automotive journalist. He's based in New York, like proper, proper New York or not? You're not like City City in okay. As it's known. he claims his favorite Star Trek series is, of course, the objectively correct answer, which is Star Trek Deep Space Nine. And his favorite character he says is Gene LeBluck Pickard. Mr. Patrick Stewart himself.

Stephen Edelstein (01:45)
the Burbs, White Plains, New York, for those who know.

Chad Kirchner (02:05)
I think that's a solid pick. Can't can't argue can't argue with that. Though it's possible that the other voice that you heard on here has the more right pick, which is Mr. Byron Heard, also an automotive journalist. He's at the drive, which we'll pimp at later. Steven is freelancing at a bunch of places, so I'll have him give you a list here towards the end. But anyways, Byron, his favorite series is again, objectively correct.

Deep Space Nine. I think that's why we all get along. Most of my guests have also said Deep Space Nine, so I feel like that's like a real solid winner. favorite track character, Elam Garrick, the plain, simple tailor, and nothing else. For those who might be Elam Garrick fans, you need to listen to episode. I don't remember the exact number, but it's but it is our Elam Garrick. I'll put the link in the show notes on the Elam Garrick episode where

Byron (02:47)
Yeah.

Chad Kirchner (03:02)
I spent like an hour talking to Erin Marquis Jalopnik about her favorite character, which is also Elon Garrick and and some of the work that Andrew Robinson has done as this character and some of the stuff that sort of like happened post that. So definitely give that a listen after you listen to this one, of course, because we are here today to talk about modern Star Trek, the the newest of new tracks.

The Star Trek that has officially killed Star Trek, at least for now, supposedly the wokest of woke truck, Starfruit Academy. Season one. But before we get quite into that, before we get quite into that, Steven, how'd you get into Star Trek? Do you remember? I don't remember. So like it's kind of always been there.

Stephen Edelstein (03:49)
yeah, people around it were always or people around me were always watching it, particularly I had an uncle who was really into it. so one day I decided to check it out. my era is sort of when TNG was going. Like I'm actually as old as TNG, and so that's why the card will always be my favorite captain. So that was sort of my gateway to Star Trek, even though DS9 is objectively a better series.

Chad Kirchner (04:10)
Sure.

Stephen Edelstein (04:17)
And so yeah, kind of snowballed from there. I just met other people who really like trek and it's been a a great thing to to enjoy since then.

Chad Kirchner (04:25)
think and I've mentioned this gosh it feels like a dozen times now on this, but I'm both surprised and pleased with how many of the colleagues again, colleagues that I like, I should point out, the colleagues that I like that are also like either truckies that e that I knew about or like just learned about recently. there's a colleague that you would all know, I won't embarrass them on on a recording, but who I had no idea and suddenly we were on the the RAV4 program and

You talk Star Trek, huh? This is weird. I'm a little confused. you make a good point though, sir, about TNG. Like TNG is ki is again, is my home quote quote unquote home track. Like that's what I grew up mostly on. I was a young teen, you know, when Deep Series Nine hit its hit its real heyday. I guess I was ten when Deep Series Nine started, but

I do remember the first Deep Season Nine episode I watched, which was interestingly enough, the episode Defiant with with Jonathan Frekes playing the role of transporter clone Draker stealing the Defiant. So also my favorite chip, which again if you're on the video stream, you can you can tell that that's fact. But like the kind of warm comfort blanket, I mean I guess deep deep six nine of his, but like I can see a lot of appeal in T and G. Like I feel like that really sets

the stage for a lot what we saw in a lot of modern ish track, especially all of the nineties track, like those, you know, TNG, Deep Space Nine, Voyager, the movies associated like that. But like T NG really kind of set that set that standard there. So I Discord is a hell of a thing too.

Stephen Edelstein (06:20)
Yeah, I am going to just quit out of it because it's

not moving. apologies, guys.

Chad Kirchner (06:23)
I I maybe I'll edit that out, maybe I won't.

No, you're fine. I just didn't know who it was. I'm gonna do a kind of a pause just 'cause I did a pause there before that. I can do some editing, right? Yurr. Byron, sir. You're a DY Y, Jack of all trades. as you like to point out. How'd you get into the Star Trek though?

Byron (06:47)
was my mom actually. she was stay at home mom when I was in like elementary school. So I'm I'm I guess a little bit older than both of you guys. Definitely older than Steven. But I'm forty two. I was born in eighty four. the like my mom would watch T and G. It was already at that point, like the early seasons were in syndication. The later seasons were still going, like we were coming up on like, you know, finale time in the mid nineties. And she would just like have it on in the afternoon on whatever cable s channel was on.

And she was like, Well, this is crazy wholesome. So I have no problem with my son watching it. And I mean there were some TNG episodes that were like pretty rough, like for a kid. Like my dad would come and be like,

Is this like an assault episode of Star Trek? What is happening? And like yeah, like that that happened. There was some, you know, there there's some, you know, rape storylines in that show and that were that were difficult for like a you a nine year old to be like, you know, like it's yeah, that's just life. But yeah, so that that's how I got into it originally. And like so track really was my first series, but then like the timing for me worked out beautifully where I was like getting into Trek right as DS nine and Voyager hit.

Chad Kirchner (07:33)
Right, what is going on here?

There are. Yep.

Byron (07:59)
So I got into DS nine basically ground floor and it took a big it was a I was it took adjustment. I think it does for anybody who's like who gets really enthusiastic about anything to expand that universe in any way. Is that is that part of the theme tonight? At all, maybe just throwing that out there. But yeah. but it took it took a minute for me to adjust to DS nine. And then once I did though, I was just like, like this is crazy good. And especially once we hit like the Dominion War timeline and all that. And so like that was like once we were there

Chad Kirchner (08:10)
Right. I it will be, it will be, yeah. I'm I'm I'm sure. Yeah.

Yeah.

Byron (08:29)
I was all in and have been pretty much since

Chad Kirchner (08:34)
Yeah yeah for sure. you know, like those on on rewatching, I don't necessarily think that Deep Space Nine's first two seasons were bad. definitely not as bad as the first two seasons of next gen. Like TNG's first two seasons are terrible. there's some good stuff in there, but like as a whole, there was a clips there was a clips episode. Like the season finale to season two was a clip episode. Like, what are we what are we doing here? Right.

Byron (08:47)
Yeah.

Stephen Edelstein (08:48)
Pretty rough, yeah.

Chad Kirchner (09:04)
but there's some good stuff, kind of good story plot establishment stuff in early Deep Space Nine. there's some really bad stuff too. I mean Yes, yeah. You can yeah, I there's like one sort of like line that you could possibly interpret in season one as a Dominion reference. but they're definitely planting the seeds far before the end of season two.

Byron (09:13)
Yeah, there is. Well, and if you're really paying attention, like they they sow the Dominion seeds pretty early on. I think it might even be season two. Like it's pretty early.

Stephen Edelstein (09:17)
And true, yeah.

Byron (09:27)
Yeah.

Chad Kirchner (09:33)
which season two of course is when the Odyssey goes to save goes to the Gamma Quadr and gets its butt kicked. which

Byron (09:42)
Yeah.

What a just a rough it's

the Hindenburg of Star Trek, I think.

Chad Kirchner (09:49)
Yeah. Well, so like it was supposed to be, I we're not talking about Duches9 here, but like it was supposed to be a big deal. The reason why they made the ISCA Galaxy Class ship was like I think Ira Steven Bear wanted it to be the Enterprise. Like I think there was some some sort of like desire to really make that almost a almost a best of both worlds kind of ending. Like, holy crap.

And of course they were not allowed to touch the crown jewels, which was the Enterprise. they had a movie standardized effort. Yeah. Yeah, they have to blow it. Yes, right. They have to blow it up later. but they still went with a galaxy clash up. And I think up until that point we were all supposed to think, like, no, there's like only twelve of them, and they are this big massive whatever. And

Byron (10:19)
Yeah. They had a movie franchise to protect too.

Stephen Edelstein (10:22)
Yeah, they had to

do they had to blow it up later at the C button.

Byron (10:27)
Yeah. Yeah.

Chad Kirchner (10:43)
In in r in like kinda hindsight it's kinda funny because it's one galaxy class ship and three runabouts, like and somehow the runabouts are holding their own t with, you know like it's it's very like don't ask too many questions. also

Byron (10:56)
Yeah. We assume like

the Dominion's not really familiar with the the the Federation combat capabilities yet. They're not really going all in. Maybe they're not fully committing, just in case.

Chad Kirchner (11:05)
Right,

yeah.

Stephen Edelstein (11:06)
Well, I mean they commit

to the fullest 'cause they they did a kamikaze run to destroy

Chad Kirchner (11:10)
Yeah,

which w which the thing is funny is like they were able to establish as then that Dominion Weapons can penetrate shields without an issue. So Captain Keogue makes an order to stop sending power to the shields and send it to the weapons to hold out locker, to save Sisko and his kid, which I don't really necessarily think that's worth sacrificing even the skeleton crew on the Odyssey about.

I wish we'd have had more backstory though with Dax. Like I think the one thing that like like I'd like to see as either like a f a a a book or a short story or something like that is why is Captain Keogue and Dax's relationship such like this real smart y kind of thing? Like they make it try to sound like, that they've got history and they talk like they have history. like recent history, like like Jitsia history, not Dax Symbian history. And it's like

Okay, whatever. 'Cause it's but like i his character also like you don't really think he's a smart either. Like he makes a a sarcastic comment about, you know, abandoning non essential crew, but it's it's weird. I don't know. I I'd like to see a little bit more there. But they're still trying to get their view. Also the the one Vorta in that episode, she has telepathic powers which we never see again. So but

Stephen Edelstein (12:32)
Pretty technical

though. I mean they did

Chad Kirchner (12:33)
But I do

like how they but I like I do like how they resolve the story, which is it's which is Quark being the most annoying person is the one that realizes the the collar was fake. Like Quark being Quark solves the mystery. and the comics they run on the Enterprise or not on the Enterprise, but on the Odyssey. like l you know, I think O'Brien's like, Well, why did they do that? Like they were retreating or or the were there. you know, and Cisco's like, well, it's proving how far they're willing they're willing to go. And I think that's powerful. I think that's a

Byron (12:54)
Yeah, they were running.

Chad Kirchner (13:03)
That's a real powerful ending. but transitioning, because we don't want to I we should just talk about D season nine for a while, but we won't. we will. yes, we will have to talk about that. But this the most recent new track, I would make an argument that the first season of Strange New Worlds, the first season of Lower Decks, the first season of Prodigy, if you guys watched it.

Stephen Edelstein (13:11)
Yeah. Well I mean we'll have an opportunity too in a minute.

Chad Kirchner (13:32)
And the first season of Starfleet Academy, were all good. Like, objectively good. And you don't have these early stinkers, like, yes, you had twenty four episodes in ol in nineties television storytelling. But like they they've been all like maybe not all of them bangers, but overall quality of the seasons have all been excellent. Including, I think, the first season of of Starfleet Academy, which

I guess overall, like at a real high level, what'd you guys think of the first season? Or what'd you think going into it? How much did you know about the sh the show sort of before you watched it? was it did you did you watch it right away or did you wait till you know you heard some feedback? Like I don't care who starts first, but like kind of like what was your initial takes on on it and going into it?

Stephen Edelstein (14:27)
overall I really liked it. I think more than I thought I would going into it because quite frankly I'm not a huge fan of the thirty second century stuff. And but yeah, this actually turned out to be really good. it's very funny, which I appreciate. all the actors are very good at looking at stuff that's not on the screen and pretending there's something there. Very important skill in any Star Trek show.

Chad Kirchner (14:35)
Same.

Well, and because it's supposed to be a younger focused cast, they're all n not unattractive to look at either. They're all pretty pretty young people. So but God. But but which kinda adds to the YA element of it though. but I don't know if I would think of it being truly, I guess, YA. I wouldn't I wouldn't call it that at least in in the derogatory sense. Like I I would I would definitely

Stephen Edelstein (15:03)
This is awesome.

Chad Kirchner (15:20)
look at the positives of something like a show like Buffy, which tends to be very much well loved and is very much, you know, YA. you know, I feel like that's the case here. Did you just kinda go into it blind, Steven, or did you did you watch any previews? Did you read anything beforehand? Or you're just like you're like, I don't know

Stephen Edelstein (15:38)
No, I didn't look at any

only to the extent that like people on social media that I knew were had seen some of it before I got a chance to and were commenting on it, but I just watched it as soon as I was able to. I tend to do that with all the new Trek stuff.

Chad Kirchner (15:56)
Byron, sir?

Byron (15:57)
Was kind of in the same boat. Like, I I've developed pretty good, like, spoiler hygiene, I guess, for the lack of a better term for it. Like, I'm like, I see the headlines, I see the the post titles, and I just kind of like, you know, I think we were maybe halfway into the season because we were also a little mad about the entire CBS Paramount parent company situation and everything. We're like, we're not gonna give them any more money than we have to to watch this show. Like, I'm not gonna pirate the thing, I'm gonna pay for Star Trek, but I'm not gonna pay for any more of than I've

Absolutely have to. So we waited until it was halfway done, jumped in about a month in, and then knocked it out in just a couple of weeks essentially, like through the last few episodes. but yeah, we were mostly blind to what was going on. We just knew that a lot of people had strong feelings and so, you know, that tinged us a little bit, but

Chad Kirchner (16:32)
Yes.

And what do you think?

Byron (16:43)
Honestly, like we really enjoyed it. Like and I think having, you know, all of those negative impressions out there probably helped a little bit because honestly we're just in that position to be like, Well, if this is really terrible, we can just bail out. It's fine. Like we we just felt very low stakes about it, you know?

Chad Kirchner (16:57)
okay. I th

I thought maybe you were being like counter cultural. If everybody is like hates this, well it's gotta be good.

Byron (17:01)
What I'm I mean what

Stephen Edelstein (17:01)
Ha ha

Byron (17:04)
I mean I no, I've I've learned my lessons on that on certain things, but but no, because I know and and we just kind of went in thinking, look, like i if it's it it can't be section thirty one bad and so the bar is there and honestly even like I mean seasons of enterprise have their moments, but that's still pretty low bar. And like we w and like by the

Chad Kirchner (17:08)
Ha ha ha.

No, no. No.

Yeah.

Byron (17:28)
third or

Stephen Edelstein (17:28)
Yeah.

Byron (17:29)
fourth episode, like once they actually started to tell stories instead of just doing exposition and catch up and trying to throw everybody together, it actually really started to cook and we really enjoyed it.

Chad Kirchner (17:39)
Yeah, I think you have to do obviously when you only have ten when you only have ten episodes, like man, that's not enough. I think one I I think that Discovery's fifteen episode first season run was too long, but that was only because they had so much on like they had to do reshooting, they had new people come aboard, they had people leave, like there was just a massive cluster of of not greatness. So I think that also

Is why that first season wasn't so hot. But I don't think that I think that now that the most of that writing room, because Cast of you know, certain people have come over and like just generally speaking, they've got kind of a better idea what they're doing. I feel like that is not that they have their sea legs or their their space legs, I guess. it ten episodes isn't isn't enough. It it's not. It maybe doesn't need to be fifteen, but

you know, twelve or thirteen probably would be better because you have to do so much character establishment early on and then you have to do so much furniture moving to get to the end to your end of your story that you don't have a lot of time to t like to actually tell the story. Like Paul Giamatti appears in the the opener in the premiere. He appears halfway through the season, just after halfway through the season, and then he appears at the end.

And I love his character. I think it's it's not only well well acted, but I think it's well written. I think it's I think it's perfect for him knowing how he feels about Star Trek and Star Trek characters. but you don't like you don't get quite enough. And I think that can be in some ways to the to the detriment of of the s the series. And

Stephen Edelstein (19:10)
Mm-hmm.

Chad Kirchner (19:33)
I think that's where you get kind of that very early on. Like, we've got to know and it's an ensemble cast too. Like, we can't just learn about Captain Ake or you know, New Spraka. Like, we have to learn about not just one cadet, but a group of cadets, because it's an you know, it's an ensemble it's an ensemble cast. And we've gotta each e we've gotta give each one of those those ensemble casts some sort of like time to establish themselves. And

I think all things considered, they did a pretty solid job. there's like one or there's the one episode feels really kind of out of place, storytelling wise, which is when they go on the mission where the ship explodes or where the the the weird the where the where the furious show up 'cause news tracks them whatever and those people die. And then the e next episode is the marriage episode. and then the next episode is the grieving episode, like

Those feel very out of order, disjointed, yeah. but really that's the only place that is really kind of broken. And what I thought was interesting and what I would love to have seen more of is I like the idea of the character of the Furious because I don't know if either one of you remember, but I read a lot of Star Trek books growing up, and there was a four book series, what was it called? Invasion.

Byron (21:04)
Yeah. Was a cross.

Chad Kirchner (21:05)
where

yeah, it was across all four TOS, next gen, Deuce Land Voyager. and they all dealt with this this race, this species known as the Furies. and they took a little bit of some liberties with with the the the T V canon, which is absolutely fine. Like I don't necessarily consider books canon per se, though though a lot of modern truck has pulled from the books to make it canon. So overall though, like

I think that's the only the only real kind of like issues. And I think that before we even start talking about like individual episodes or the the pushback from Steven Miller of all people ab about it, I I think that there's a I think there were a couple other things I want to hit on like kind of series wise.

So in the writer's room, one of the writers is Tawny Nissom. Tawny is the the voice of Beckett Mariner on Lower Decks and is shockingly Trek knowledgeable. Like at an insane, ridiculous, like R level, probably worse kind of thing. grew up watching Star Trek, watching Deep Space Nine. And we're gonna talk about that very specifically about episode five. but like she

When when I knew that she was helping write it, I don't think she was the head writer, but I when I knew that she was gonna be in that writer's room, I felt pretty optimistic about the show. Because what's what's great I think about modern Star Trek is the people in the writer's room grew up watching Star Trek. So if you look at something like lower decks, which could have been terrible, like it could have been very, very bad. and it wasn't, which shocked I mean, it shocked me for sure.

because it was done with love and it was done with care. It wasn't just getting canon stuff right or inside jokes or things like that. It was done with love. And I've and I feel that same way with with Strange New Worlds. Like, you know, some people argue about really stupid canon stuff like like the Gorn and whatever. Like it was one line in a TV show six literally sixty years ago. What's like we it's okay, it's okay to to riff on that.

Stephen Edelstein (23:25)
Yeah.

Chad Kirchner (23:26)
Yeah, it's okay to let's riff on that a little bit. but I think that's really what kind of established a lot of confidence in it for me. because TVYA isn't really necessarily my jam. But one other thing that I think that they did really well is they did the best, like they did what I think Discovery should have done with the 32nd Century, which is kind of like actually do a reset. Like you you you can tell.

Stephen Edelstein (23:28)
Yeah.

Chad Kirchner (23:56)
Star Trek story in that timeline. I still think the ships look stupid, but you can tell a story in that in that timeline, not tied down by canon because you're so far into the future. and I I think that like with Starfleet Academy, like you could follow these cadets through the academy, and I think you can do some real interesting stuff and

Some of that is benefited not because it's the 32nd century, but because it's not the 24th century. so I think overall they were kind of on the right track. That being said, let's who has a favorite all right, who has a favorite episode of the season that was an episode five of the Deep Space Line episode?

Stephen Edelstein (24:45)
boy. actually in a similar vein, granted, I think I'd go with episode eight. Another focus on another character from the previous series.

Chad Kirchner (24:46)
You can't eat that one's off that one's off the table.

yes. From

from what was wasn't necessarily a particularly great episode of Voyager either. Like it was definitely a throwaway ep episode. which is the episode for those knowing it's the the life of the stars where the doctor has to go be a parent to one of the cadets, in a very Star Treky way. even with light aliens too. Like that's total original series, glowing light aliens. So awesome. But

Stephen Edelstein (25:06)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Chad Kirchner (25:29)
A real kind of throwaway episode of Voyager where it was where the doctor experimented with having a family. And what we didn't really understand then is when his his children die, his child dies, holographically dies, in that episode of Voyager, kinda messed him up, which it should but but but

Stephen Edelstein (25:55)
Ha ha ha.

Chad Kirchner (25:58)
You know, with the with the episodic nature of television storytelling at the time, you can't have those repercussions. You'd still like Voyager was very episodic like TNG. Deep Space Nine was the the one of the first serialized storytellings in T V period. So you couldn't really kind of explore that, but nine hundred years later in universe time

still kinda messed the dude up. and I think that he I think that episode is very well done, very well written. Robert Picardo does an excellent job there. They teased it kind of through the whole season 'cause he kept not having kept wanting to avoid series acclamation mill or Sam, as she calls herself, the hologram character. but

Stephen Edelstein (26:29)
Yeah.

Chad Kirchner (26:53)
We go like and she he's he's kind of a jerk, like a straight up jerk to her at some point. So it's like why don't you Some of it's little hand wavy shorthand, I kinda wish they would have played flushed it out a little bit more, but basically it's because he didn't want her to get attached to him. He didn't want to get attached to her. So, Byron, this is a draft, so you can't pick that one either. You can. You can you can if you want, but like I just said, we I I think I think it's safe to say that episode five is

probably gonna be all of our favorites, so 'cause all of our favorite shows are Deep Space Nine. So any other ones that season, including that one the other one, you could say like, hey, this was this really did it for me. I really liked this.

Byron (27:35)
Well, I honestly kind of enjoyed the way they were they resolved everything at the finale. Like it I mean, you know, they had to they had to do a lot of tie up and, you know, j it's just loose ends. But I mean, it was honestly there were moments where I was trained why I was like, this is really like satisfyingly subversive. Because like we don't have to say who anybody might represent or might not. But let's just say if they had megaphones you'd hear it pretty loud. Like it's I mean it wow. But, you know

Chad Kirchner (27:57)
No

Yeah, I mean Star Trek's

never been subtle. No.

Byron (28:06)
No No. And

clearly that they get the message out because, you know, it's upsetting certain people, which

Chad Kirchner (28:12)
It

it it the people that would that yeah, but the only thing that I like I'd liked what I liked about that final episode and sort of the the conclusion of of New Sparacles kind of storyline is he became this jerk because he thought that his you know his dad was screwed over by the Federation. Turns out his dad killed everybody on the colony. turns out

but Barry wanted to ask you a little bit. Obviously there I think are some Alex Jones parallels drawn there, if if if not maybe some other he strikes it strikes me the most, I think, of an Alex Jones character. and do do you think it was a little too much when he was starting to say like, the f you know, the revolution will be televised and like the whole T V aspect, did that seem a little

Byron (29:10)
Sure, it was it was ham b but that's also I mean, I feel like it's Paul Giamatti in this character. You've kind of signed like it if it's it's it's like you sign like you got Jim Carrey playing anybody. Overacting is on the menu, right? And like as soon as it's Giamatti, it's like, he's gonna be a scumbag. What kind? You know? And so and he did it so well and and he's just so natural at it, which is frightening, but

Chad Kirchner (29:10)
Two campy.

It is.

Right. Right.

Right. Well he wanted to be a scumbag because like and he did it really well.

I I I mean, yeah, because like from my understanding, I mean there's you can even find the episode of I I don't know, it's like Seth Myers or whatever. Like and they were talking something about Star Trek and he's like, Really wanna be a Star Trek character. He's like, I wanna play a Klingon. and the the showrunners got a hold of him and said, Hey, you wanna be in Star Trek? What do you want to do? Like w is there any what would you do if you could be in Star Trek? And he's like, I wanna be a Klingon and I wanna

be a bad guy. And they made him half Klingon. Well what I what I want to go back to is I think half Klingon, half Tellarite is like even better because he has the strength. He has the strength of a of a Klingon, but he has the he's a he's got the of of a Tellerite. Like it's so just it works and he he chews so much scenery. And yeah and

Stephen Edelstein (30:28)
Yeah.

Byron (30:34)
He does. man, does he? It's wild.

Chad Kirchner (30:39)
but yeah, like that final episode I think really kinda i i if there wasn't gonna be another season, and there will be, they've already filmed season two, but like if there wasn't gonna be a season two, like there is a a decent I I feel like a decent tying up, you know, loose ends. It didn't end on a cliffhanger. no stay tuned, but

Byron (31:02)
Right. And for all the like over the top theatrical stuff with his character, like I have to say, like I'm a big fan of the TOS movies. I really enjoy the Undiscovered Country, in which we have Klingons quoting Shakespeare in space battles. You know, so the bar for jerks in Klingon makeup saying weird crap that only humans in the twenty-first century should get pretty low. We're good. I'm not too worried about it.

Chad Kirchner (31:20)
It's so great.

Stephen Edelstein (31:19)
just the baths. Mm-hmm.

Chad Kirchner (31:29)
But but scenery chewing.

Like cr Christopher Plummer. Like he set he set the bar. Like like there's probably some stuff in TOS that you could say, like especially with the Klingon characters, Kangkor and Coloth and the the folks that played them, there is some grandiose Klingonness in those episodes. especially Trouble with Tribbles. but like

Byron (31:32)
man. he was Yeah.

Stephen Edelstein (31:35)
Fantastic.

Chad Kirchner (31:55)
It's taken to like the nth degree when you put Christopher Plummer on there, who's who's a Shakespearean actor, who also William Shatner was a Shakespearean actor, and didn't really like that he was being out acted. because Plummer's just having so much fun. Like you watch that you watch that and you watch it with a you know, sort of a little bit out of universe, like with a more critical eye, you can just tell he's having a blast. But the guy's just having fun. He doesn't care. He doesn't care if his credits are on this movie at all.

I mean they are. But like he he doesn't care. He's he's there doing Shakespeare, which is what he loves doing, while just chewing through some scenery. And Paul Giamatti, like I don't know if that was his inspiration, but it feels like there was it feels like he watched the Undiscovered Country a lot before deciding this character because because it is it again, this idea of mixing all of like

The really cool traits of a Klingon with all the very unique traits of a Tellarite. And what does that look like together? And I really feel like Paul Giamatti delivers boom. And as a villain, I think, like, yes, is it a little comic booky? Is it a little mustache twirly? A little, a little bit, just because of how much scenery he chews. But it doesn't feel inauthentic either.

Stephen Edelstein (33:18)
Yeah, it's like who cares?

We're here to be entertained.

Chad Kirchner (33:21)
Yeah, yeah. And I was you know, I was at one point did he say, Are you not entertaining? Like I feel like like he is it it's it's so good though. and the the having just having him bounce off of Captain Ockey I think is really Holly Hunter. Sorry, sorry I forgot her name, but like

Stephen Edelstein (33:29)
Yeah, I think you might have actually.

Chad Kirchner (33:50)
Like we're talking po so Paul Giamatti and Holly Hunter, like mainstream A list, like I believe Holly has won awards.

Byron (34:02)
Are either of you fans of community? Like I literally like there's a line in that show where Ahmed's like, I think of someone safe like Holly Hunter. Or no, I think actually it's actually it's Troy says it to Ahmed, like, think of someone safe because he's having one of his breakdowns. Like and like it's like literally when I saw she was cast, I was like, we're gonna be fine. And I like, god, community got me. Like, it's in there.

Chad Kirchner (34:09)
Yeah.

Yeah Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, you're gonna be fine. And and again we'll we'll talk about some of the the the stupid chetty criticisms, but like I like her character. I like how it's a little weird. She's a Lanthanite. We've learned we've established that Lanthanites are weird. like I think she picks up on that really well, again, in an authentic kind of way. and her chemistry

Stephen Edelstein (34:38)
Mm-hmm.

He's a Lanternite

college per chancellor too. That's like maximum weirdness.

Byron (34:50)
Yeah.

Chad Kirchner (34:51)
Yeah,

like it's it's yeah. And her chemistry with Paul Giamatti, especially. Like I think she's got good chemistry with all of the cast, especially trying to take that s you know, advisor role but also a mother but not your mother. I like at one point Caleb says to her, You're not my mom. like I like that he draws that line at some point. But the chemistry that they that she has with with Paul Giamatti, like it's

It's so good. Like it is legitimately good stuff. And yeah. I I just I I don't know how you get cast that good. Like I I I mean I do you offer them money. Right. But like I don't think I don't think Paul I think Paul probably would have done it for free. As much as of a Star Trek fan, you know, as he is. and we get to see a little bit of some of Discovery people carry over.

how do you s Admiral Lance Odar or OE gosh why can't I remember his name right off the top of my head? Odid Fair, I believe. Yeah. I'm so sorry if he ever listens to this. which I liked his character a lot in in dis in Discovery. I think he does a good role sort of good job here. and we do see Tilly in one episode. I kinda feel like

Byron (35:58)
Like fair, yeah.

Yeah.

Chad Kirchner (36:19)
We should have seen a little bit more of her, though her explanation is she's like this isn't discovery. Look, I don't want people to think it's discovery. But there was some other obviously discovery tie-ins, I think, just with the whole the whole 36th, 32nd century. I would have liked to see more of Lurethoque, which was the Gemini Klingon hybrid, which I don't know how you get that. I don't care. Like

Byron (36:35)
Yeah.

Stephen Edelstein (36:40)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Chad Kirchner (36:48)
Because it's interesting,

but I don't know how you get it because I don't I th I thought that Chemitar were bred to not be able to reproduce. So you would have had to have done you would have had to do some I mean, I guess I guess at the end of the day what really matters is that life finds a way. Yeah. but I I I love that she bleeds catch a cell white. That makes sense. When you see her bleed, she bleeds white. You're like, okay, well that's that's

Stephen Edelstein (36:57)
I mean centuries go by, things happen, you know.

Byron (37:06)
Bound away.

Stephen Edelstein (37:08)
Ha ha ha.

Mm-hmm.

Chad Kirchner (37:18)
interesting because Klingons don't. and of course then Tignotaro is J Reno. Gosh she's so good. I I I I love

Stephen Edelstein (37:27)
I know, I was really glad that she

got to be like a recurring character. not that I didn't also like Tilly, but

Chad Kirchner (37:33)
Yeah, but she's she's just Tignataro's funny in that very dry, sarcastic kind of way. And you put her in the role of where she has to like teach students, like it's it's it's it's per it is. It it it is. and of course Robert Picard, which we talked about, and then Stephen Colbert was the digital students. which is still a little weird hearing Colbert's voice on the regular. but let's talk about the episode that

Byron (37:38)
Dry. Yeah.

Perfect.

Stephen Edelstein (37:57)
Yes, yeah.

Chad Kirchner (38:04)
I was like eerily awaiting. Like I knew there was gonna be a Deep Space Line episode and then I saw which one it was gonna be on. Come let's get the D Space Nine, Deep Space Nine Space Nine episode. episode five, series acclamation mill is the story about serious acclamation mill, Sam. And she decides, which I think rightfully any col I could see a college kid doing this, just being like, well nobody's figured out w what happened to Captain Zisco.

At the end of these face line. I'm gonna figure it out. And that seems like a very what's something a very non experienced kid who would say, they haven't figured it out in nine hundred years? No problem. I'll solve this on a on over the weekend. So with with an instructor who we'll get to at the very end. But

Stephen Edelstein (38:56)
Yeah.

Chad Kirchner (39:03)
And goes out on this journey. She goes to the Bajorn Club and asks what happened to the emissary of the prophet, and she got kicked out. what's weird is you don't really see Ben Sisko's face through a lot of stuff. He's almost become like not even a godlike figure, but like sort of just transcending sort of all of that. And she feels like this that she wants to figure this out because

She's having a problem figuring out what her role is as as a as a life form. she's an emissary to her people. Somebody plants in her head that Cisco is the emissary of the prophets. all the cadets end up eating Creole food, and seem to like it.

Jake Cisco appears. the room gets kinda dusty. and then we don't w we we get a satisfying ending, I feel like, but we still don't really know what happened to Cisco. So what'd you guys think? What'd you like of the storytelling? Byron, I'll start with you. Like, what do you think did well? Did you w w what'd you like about what they did? Was there anything weird that you're like, I'm not sure why they did it this way? It was like

Byron (40:24)
Honestly, like w I really like Sam as a character. Like I I think it's a an interesting, like a Star Trek is like keeps going back to this whole like the what is an actual being, you know, at at what point does artificial not matter? And I mean we know we started with Spock when it was just a matter of whether he was Vulcan or human and then you know data, and then we have Sam. And the doctor played in that space a lot too, actually. And it's good seeing him as like the father figure to her.

Chad Kirchner (40:41)
We did.

Byron (40:52)
And seeing her take on these kinds of like personal development type things. And I I mean, I like it because it's a you know, she has only recently developed even like the notion of family and like actually experience what any of that means. So having to explore loss as a creature who's never had to like experience it in like that same sense was a really interesting story. And I do really like that.

the idea of kind of like this series kind of ne naivete be kind of embodied in her. Like, yeah, this this she's yeah, she's open. It's it's she's blank slate, right? And like that's kind of like the show. Like this is this is the not a reboot. That's a silly way to to to put it because it's just one franchise. But I really love the way those themes play off of each other. And I mean again, a sucker for DS9. It's hard to not just gush about everything that they

Chad Kirchner (41:26)
Yeah, she's she's very sh yeah.

Byron (41:48)
they do to finally, finally give us some that's I think that's maybe one of my favorite things about this series. It's taken us so long to get some of these payoffs on like Voyager got Prodigy and some other like stuff with Picard. DS9 just keeps missing, and I get Avery's a private man and I respect that. But like

Chad Kirchner (42:00)
Sure.

Yeah. Well, and also

characters I mean, people have died too, which is a problem. Yeah.

Byron (42:08)
Yes. Yeah. You're like you're just running out of opportunities. Like it's

they're just not there. So it's cool that we're getting these things. but yeah, that I mean that episode and I mean well, we we we already said it. Like between that and episode eight that they make the season, I think, just like by themselves the rest you they're just there.

Chad Kirchner (42:24)
Yeah. Yeah.

They really pull the also really pull on the emotional heartstrings. you know, we like Sarak Lofton appears. How does he appear? I don't know. Don't a don't ask too many questions. Don't think about it too hard. As long as you do that, then you're okay. but Sam is a blank slate. Ugh, truck reference. Too much work.

but but Sam really like and she's also been told that she like her people are all photonics. They're they're hologram, like light beings, which is totally Star Trek. But they're not sure if they want to reestablish contact with with humanity and the Federation and whatever like that because they had a bad experience last time. So they're sending a representative.

Byron (43:19)
Suck.

Chad Kirchner (43:24)
But they're not sending a representative with experience and knowledge. It's somebody like who's very green. And what is college if not like really trying to find yourself? Like it's again, it's YA, but like it's it's it's right. Like it's so and I love the naivety that comes into I'm just gonna sell I'm gonna solve what happened to Ben Zisko. How hard can it be? turns out

Mr. Edelstein, sir, your thoughts. Would you what what'd you like? Any like what were some of the call outs for you that you really were like, Yeah, I'm glad that I'm I got to see this.

Stephen Edelstein (44:04)
well there's a

there's a certain double cameo as it were that I that I really appreciated, which is

Chad Kirchner (44:11)
yes. Tawny Newsom

appears which I didn't really know it was like I knew like I didn't pick it up on her voice right away. I'm like, wait, I kinda know this. Why why why do I know this? I'm like and I and I'll talk a little bit more about Tanya's character here in a minute, but like well of course if you wrote the episode you're gonna find a way to star in it too, like especially if it's a tribute to your favorite Star Trek, so

I totally get that. So you have that reveal. you have the Sirac Lofton reveal. Do you did you find the ending satisfying enough? 'Cause we don't know what happened. Like they make it very clear we don't know what happened.

Stephen Edelstein (44:58)
yeah, totally because I I one of the things I liked the most about the episode was the lesson that what happened to him isn't that important and people will believe what they want to believe. Like, going back to your point before about how they don't show the image of him, at some point they actually say, Bajoran just don't do that, that they think of him as a religious figure and they don't think it's appropriate to show images of him anymore.

And that, you know, whether he was just a guy and he died, or whether he's really living with the prophets, you know, they've taken from his story and experience what they will from it. And similarly, like his family just viewed him as, you know, a great father and all these other things. And that that's really the the lesson is the most important thing about Benjamin Sisko wasn't what happened to him, that's just a mystery. It's what he did while he was still around.

Chad Kirchner (45:50)
Yeah. And Jake also

It's not proven, but Jake also said his father was always there. Because like when when Avery Brooks took the job, like he made it clear to the showrunners that he wasn't gonna be the stereotypical African American father in a TV show, which is the non, you know, somebody who's not there for their kids. I mean, he's like, I'm not gonna be a stereotype. I wanna set a good positive example for young black people who are gonna watch this, who are gonna watch this. So

It's not a huge secret. He wasn't super thrilled with how the series ended, because he did end up abandoning his family. Now, among other things, him being a very private man or stuff like that, but like that is that did go against s you know, what he was trying to accomplish with his character. so having Sarethlovt to come back and say, No, he was always there with us.

You know, he was there when I did this. He was there when my kids were born. He he yes, he physically wasn't there, but I knew he was there the whole time. Like he was there taking care of us. And like the way that that was the way that that was written, which Tony wrote it with one of the Star Trek one of the Star Trek book author, whose name I can't remember any now 'cause I'm terrible with names, but well a well known author in the in Star Trek land. very well written. And

It must have been well written enough because they got permission from Avery to use his voice at the end. for the the prologue, monologue, whatever. that's

It wasn't him live. It was it was some recordings of some stuff that he did several years after Deep Space Line. But he got permission he got permission to do that. so I I think that kind of really cleared the air, sort of, with at least with Tawny, because Tawny tells the story the way that she has told it is she's a huge trekie. She grew up watching Deep Space Nine. She saw

as being a young black woman, she saw a positive role model in Cisco. She saw Cisco and and and Jake's Ben and Jake's relationship. Like she was influenced by that, in addition to just being influenced by Star Trek. So then she turns out to get to live her dream of you know, writing writing for Star Trek and she gets to do the Omaha. She gets to do the thank you. She gets to thank Avery Books for the influence that

he had on her life, which is kinda wild. Like it it really yes, it was entertaining for all of us, but I think why it hits so hard is it was very it was very obviously very emotional, sort of for her. Even so much so that after the end, after you see Cisco, what you think is Cisco in the in the clouds, like, you know, the it pops up and it says, Thank you, Avery. Almost like Avery's dead. Avery Brooks is not dead.

Stephen Edelstein (49:02)
Yeah, I thought that was a little

weird actually, not gonna lie.

Chad Kirchner (49:05)
Yeah, it come off. I mean it definitely come off as a little weird, but I think that was just I think that was Tawny thinking Avery and not the fans thinking Avery or Star Trek thinking Avery. but yeah, it's it's kinda wild. Like I said,

Stephen Edelstein (49:12)
yeah. Mm-hmm.

Byron (49:25)
there.

Chad Kirchner (49:27)
So now we need to address the elephant in the room.

Seems like people on the internet didn't like this series of Star Trek. now, everybody whose opinions that I like care about all seem to like the series of Star Trek. But overall on the internet it seemed to not do that. So much so that Steven Miller, assistant to the president of the United States, went out and called Star Trek too woke and suggested that William Shatner should come back and run Star Trek and make it less woke. Which makes me think that he's never seen Star Trek.

But also then there was also another epis another thing that the pr that the White House did with the Secretary of War, Defense, Secretary of Bros, that talked about putting AI into weapons and they called it the Arsenal of of freedom, which is a TNG episode where everybody dies when the AI computer starts killing people. the AI weapons

Stephen Edelstein (50:25)
Not even a very good one, but

Chad Kirchner (50:26)
Like, yeah, y yeah, also not really

a great episode of Star Trek either. But what the heck? so so like obviously we're gonna be anti-Chudd here, but what

I'm a cisgendered white dude in the middle of America. So like I can't speak a ton to representation. other than that, I've always been represented in Star Trek. it's clear there's a lot of other people now being represented in Star Trek, especially in Starfleet Academy, that probably haven't had super duper total representation before. I think that's a good thing. I think it's great that scants are back too. I think the scants from

From seasons one and two of TNG. Dude should wear scants. I'm all pro scant. but you know, we've got a Klingon who who isn't a traditional Klingon because he cares about science. Okay, well you can't have a full warlike society, but you know, criticism's been lobbed, you know, there. Criticism's been lobbed at other, you know, other characters. Like what's your guys' take? Give me some hot takes too, if you want.

Stephen Edelstein (51:45)
I mean obviously all those people are wrong. Like, I don't know, you you have to have literally never watched Star Trek to have a problem with this. and even, you know, I guess it's just, you know, the current political moment where they're so desperate for something to get people upset about, but it's like do they not even see Discovery or Strange New Worlds? It's like that's this is even it's it it's right up to the current moment from the original to

Chad Kirchner (51:50)
Yes.

Stephen Edelstein (52:14)
latest stuff that literally the same teams of people have been doing. And, you know, it it just smacks it being like people just trying to stir something up for no apparent reason. And the

Chad Kirchner (52:24)
Well, Star Trek has always been social commentary.

I just think these people don't like what the commentary says about them. You know, I I think that a lot of TOS is Cold War. You know, space race, Cold War stuff. There is definitely some address addressing of racism and bigotry. aside from the obvious first generational kiss on television, one of my favorite episodes of of the original series is the Romulan woman.

can er I keep wanting to say Erend of Mercy, which is not that episode. Balance of Terror. Balance of Terror. And one of my favorite episodes episodes of the original series is Star Trek. I can rewatch it today. It's excellent. I think the timing even for a sixties show is excellent in that. And there's one point where the the not the not check off, because Chekhov isn't there yet. The not check off makes some really bigoted comments about Spock once they realize that

Byron (52:58)
Balance of terror.

Chad Kirchner (53:22)
Romulans Vulcans, they kind of look alike. and Kirk shuts that shuts that down. He's like, I the bigotry, there's no place in this bridge for bigotry. so really the William Shatner era of the original series, which again it is all but one episode, is really pretty. Let's call let's let's call it woke, you know. I I think that's our friend Robbie Baldwin on a

On the first episode of this this podcast, basically said, like, if you took the wokeness, like if you sort of adjusted for woke filation, which is something I'm that I'm like talking about here, like and you aired the equivalent of how woke the original series was to the time, you would have Star Trek that's way more quote unquote woke than what Starfleet Academy is or what these shows are. Because I again the representation available now.

Stephen Edelstein (54:00)
Yeah.

Chad Kirchner (54:21)
is extremely important because more people need to get into Star Trek 'cause it's great. but we would we it would be this is tame compared to what the original series was in the late nineteen sixties.

Yeah, I mean, but people think people listen to Rage Against the Machine and they think it's about their parents. Like, do you not hear do you not hear the lyrics? So Byron has another Midwestern says gendered by dude. hi hi hi hello. Steven is the the yuppie. He is the New Yorker. The white the white plains New Yorker. Yeah, the New York elitist. he doesn't know what's like here in rural America.

Byron (54:46)
Right.

Stephen Edelstein (55:00)
Yeah, that's true. I live a I'm a postal route. Sorry, everybody.

Byron (55:00)
Yep. East Coast elitist. Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Right. Real America. Real America.

Chad Kirchner (55:10)
Royal

Marco. but like is there I know the answer to this already, but do you even notice this when you watch it? Like

Byron (55:22)
I mean there there are definitely moments where I'm like, I can understand. Like what like this is gonna be a tri like the puking glitter moment was like a pretty big I was just like, okay, that's gonna that's gonna bother some people. Someone's not gonna like that. But like it we were talking about before, like the whole problem with with modern television. Well, one of the many problems of modern television, the everything being so condensed. Like we don't have twenty two to twenty four episodes. My my my wife is watching, rewatching the original Beverly Hills nine two one

Chad Kirchner (55:33)
Yeah. Yeah.

Byron (55:51)
Which a couple of seasons of that go like twenty-eight, twenty-nine episodes when they were really raking it in, you know? And so like back then you could do eight woke episodes in a season, and they would just kind of like, you know, the message would f yeah and and like T N G did that, T and DS9 did that, Voyager did that. I mean Port Tom Paris and Catherine Janeway, they had a very woke episode. And like just

Chad Kirchner (55:54)
Yeah.

Well right.

Mm.

Stephen Edelstein (56:15)
Yeah.

Byron (56:19)
a among many things. But like like you know, like the these things were always there, it was just the saturation level was much lower because we had more content. And it's odd now that

Chad Kirchner (56:23)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Which is also

which is also how the bad content, like, you kind of forget it. Like like you can have stinkers when you know you're gonna have, you know. yeah, yeah, I think that like, okay, the glitter, like hey, whatever, I don't care. Like, is it a little silly? Sure, but Star Trek Star Trek is silly. Star Trek is funny. It's supposed to be funny. It's supposed to be silly. You're not supposed to take it seriously, like

Byron (56:33)
Exactly. Yeah.

Chad Kirchner (56:53)
I get like I take Canon pretty seriously. Like, don't get me wrong, but like it's a TV show. and I think a lot of ways, I think really what kinda changed my perspective, I don't know how long ago this was, but I was listening to a podcast or something, and they kinda talked about like the T O the the two thousand nine reboot, the Calvin timeline stuff. Like, you kinda gotta view it like Shakespeare, like performers of Shakespeare. So it's not it it's not the original Kleon kind of thing, like right, like it's

It's this person's current interpretation of Hamlet or of King Lear or or whatever, right? And so it's okay that Captain Kirk in 2026 is not the same Captain Kirk that was in nineteen or in nineteen sixty-six. Gosh, sixty years. you know, like that's okay because you can kind of put your own spin or your own take on it. And I feel like Chris Pine did that.

And I feel like can't remember his name now, who does it now is is trying to do that. and I think it's fine. Like I I don't it it it doesn't so what if somebody pukes on it, right? So what if there's a so what if characters are wearing scants? Scants are canon, dang it. but like it it like some of the stuff like what matters is

Stephen Edelstein (58:13)
Uh-huh.

Chad Kirchner (58:20)
That not everybody on Star Trek looks like me. That does matter. And while it doesn't matter to me in the storytelling process, it does matter to me that the writer's room is full of people who don't look like me, along with people in the cast who don't look like me. Because you can tell better stories. Like you can tell more interesting stories. And I'm here for I I Star Trek has always been about the stories. The stories you can tell. And

I think Starfleet Academy had still does because there's another season left, but has potential to tell some interesting stories that we haven't yet experienced in the Star Trek universe, right? Like, and I think now that the writers' room had found it its you know, found its sea legs. Like I feel like we're kind of ready now. Like let's keep going, let's get this stuff going. And then of course, the Ellisons killed it. there's currently no new start. Now, what's interesting is the Ellisons have

been part of Star Trek since the 2009 Calvin reboot, so they know there's money in Star Trek. And he also knows that Star Trek's been kind of woke. Like I'm sure he's I'm sure he knows what comes out on his streaming network. Like so I I don't know why Starfleet Academy was canceled. maybe the streaming numbers really were pretty bad. But I don't I I don't

I don't think that's the case. and I think that's I think that's that's a lot I think that's a loss. I think that it's a loss that there's currently no new Star Trek in production, in active production. We're doing post production for Starfleet Academy season two. But that's it. Like that's it. This is the longest we've ever gone without a Star Trek movie too, to be clear, in the history of Star Trek. Like we haven't had a movie since what, 2013, eleven?

Stephen Edelstein (1:00:20)
nine was the first the second one was twenty twelve.

Chad Kirchner (1:00:18)
nine was the nine was was the first and then ten or eleven was the was

Byron (1:00:22)
And then in the dark. Yeah.

Chad Kirchner (1:00:26)
was the one that should have never been made and then Beyond came after that.

Stephen Edelstein (1:00:29)
Mm-hmm.

Be beyond

was twenty sixteen, I think.

Byron (1:00:33)
Yeah, so

Chad Kirchner (1:00:36)
Yeah. So like but we are in like the longest drought for for movies. Not that I think Star Trek's place should be on movies, like on a big screen. I kinda like seeing it there, but I I think that you get better storytelling through ten, twelve, fifteen through ten, twelve, fifteen episodes. And I think I think Star Trek is made for streaming. Like I really think that like it's a property that can really excel under the streaming model. because it's kinda like syndication. Like it's not the

Byron (1:00:37)
So there we are.

Stephen Edelstein (1:00:40)
Yeah.

Mm.

Chad Kirchner (1:01:07)
it's it's not the appointment necessarily appointment TV, but like I think Cetric became popular because it was an appointment TV. 'Cause it was just kinda always on. And people could get in and watch it. Get in and

Stephen Edelstein (1:01:18)
yeah, absolutely. And then, you know, they

did TNG 'cause they needed more like reruns basically to to backfill daytime T V with. yeah. What I think is wild is not just that they cancelled Starfleet Academy, it's that they don't have any other Star Trek stuff going as well. Like you know, it's like yeah, it's crazy, that's one of the biggest properties that they have and that there just isn't anything going on with it and that it was already going to

Chad Kirchner (1:01:26)
Yes. Yeah.

Stephen Edelstein (1:01:48)
be Starfleet Academy or nothing, I think that is also

Chad Kirchner (1:01:51)
Right. I know it doesn't exist

in the Yellowstone cinematic universe, which I think is like their most popular streaming stuff, but like man, I it it can't be I know they spent a lot of money on Star Trek. Like it's it's clear that there's been a lot of money spent, but

Stephen Edelstein (1:02:06)
Mm-hmm.

And and this show

in particular seemed very expensive because of the actors that we were discussing before and the gorgeous, very elaborate sets.

Chad Kirchner (1:02:12)
Yeah, there's there

Yeah.

Yeah. But they've also figured out how to shoot with those gorgeous elaborate sets. but but I believe that Starfleet Academy has the biggest set at studios, like ever. I think it's the biggest Star Trek set ever. Like single set piece ever. I'd have to find the source to to link back to it. But yeah, it's

Stephen Edelstein (1:02:23)
yeah.

Chad Kirchner (1:02:42)
But they figured out how to shoot in front of a volume and they figured out how to, you know, do certain things a certain way. And again, I just think there's a lot of good people working on Star Trek, and it's kind of a real bummer that like at the end of, you know, it's Star Trek's sixty first year, there won't there won't be any potentially anything on the radar. And I it's weird because we went through a period of not having any Star Trek and that was kind of dumb. Like you know, and

Stephen Edelstein (1:03:02)
Yeah.

Chad Kirchner (1:03:12)
I'm not sure if the way Discovery brought it back was the best execution, but it was plagued with problems that were sort of out of a lot of its control. And you know, Picard they were still trying to figure some stuff out and and I don't think it's was as hot as much of a hot mess as some people, but like it had some issues. But then Anson Mount and his giant bouffant hair

Stephen Edelstein (1:03:19)
Mm-hmm.

That's right.

Chad Kirchner (1:03:41)
shows up as your space dad and like nails it and that whole cast nails it. and then they're like, hey, we're we're we're gonna try something new. You know that guy that did Rick and Morty? What if he did a Star Trek show? And you're like, Wait, what? but then he also but he also did this the T N G season eight Twitter account. So like you're like, he must know something.

Stephen Edelstein (1:03:59)
Yeah.

Chad Kirchner (1:04:10)
But then you you get a decent cast. Like you get like kind of a a s you know, Jack Wade, I mean

What you gonna do, right? Like you have just this kind of rock star kind of cast, and then you just nail it. Like you you just nail it, and then you get ambitious and you're like, I got an idea. Let's do a crossover with the real world, but not the way you think. We're not gonna put Anson Mount and make him a cartoon. We're gonna go the other way. And I'm like, huh? Like, how on earth do you do that?

Stephen Edelstein (1:04:28)
Yeah.

And it worked out pretty well.

Chad Kirchner (1:04:51)
And you give boy

you give boy boim's purple hair and and it just it just worked. And they did a musical episode, like the Buffy musical, and like, wait, like and it worked. 'Cause you're like and then at the you're like, the Klingon's gonna be Klingon opera. No, it's K pop. Which was the right twist. Like that was the right twist for that show. Yeah, I too, I I I do.

Stephen Edelstein (1:05:16)
I wish there was more of it to be honest. When we got that little

sound bite.

Chad Kirchner (1:05:20)
I do too. But the the woman who plays Uhura has like a Grammy. Like she's like No, but she has a Grammy. And canonically canonically, Uhura can sing. So it fits. And and you know, there's gonna be a Muppets episode where they're working with the Jim Henson creature factory and like everybody's gonna be Muppetized in Strange Worlds. I don't care.

Stephen Edelstein (1:05:25)
Yeah, she has a Grammy. Unfortunately nobody else on that show can really sing, but

Yeah, but

Mm-hmm.

Byron (1:05:34)
Perfect pitch.

Stephen Edelstein (1:05:42)
Uh-huh.

Chad Kirchner (1:05:49)
what the story behind it is. I can't wait to see it. Cause it's just because like they're taking swings. And Prodigy, like I liked a lot. wasn't I wasn't the right age demographic for it, but like it treated children or younger people who were watching it with respect. It respected their intelligence and it told very adult stories, like very serious stories.

But it respected the audience and treated them like they knew what was going on. It wasn't pandering the kids. It was just honestly pretty solid Star Trek storytelling. that just happened to be targeted at a a younger at a younger group. Because that's supposed to help people get into Star Trek. Starfleet Academy was supposed to help people get into Star Trek. Like you can't you can't get to the awesomeness of like Deep Space Nine. Like you can't get just dropped into Deep Space Nine. You probably could, but like I don't think that would be the first

I thought we're gonna introduce somebody to Star Trek. If you're gonna just introduce somebody to Star Trek and then we'll we'll end this. But like what would you show somebody first? Somebody came to you, Steven, I'll start with you. And I came to you and said, I've never seen Star Trek. What's the first thing I should watch? Where are you sending them?

Stephen Edelstein (1:06:46)
Well, I don't know actually.

I I would actually send them to DS nine because it's the best show and I would say, you know, if you have kind of heard that Star Trek has all this weird stuff going on and just want a a T V show with like normal character development and things like that, that's the one the one to watch.

Chad Kirchner (1:07:19)
Right. It is very

bo it is very modern storytelling for a time where modern storytelling didn't exist. also it's where Ronald D. Moore cut his chops, where he then went on to do Battlestar Galactica for all mankind and Star City. And we're gonna have a guest in the future that has a really good theory about Ronald D. Moore. Byron I hope to have Riswick on sometime soonish. I think he said he's got a theory on on on.

Stephen Edelstein (1:07:23)
Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Chad Kirchner (1:07:48)
anymore but kinda I mean outside of the Cisco disappearing thing kinda hits the landing on Deep Space Nine at least though that was still our Stephen Bear's jam you know but Byron never seen Star Trek where are you sending them section 31

Byron (1:08:08)
This is tougher than I thought 'cause like mine Yeah, God.

Stephen Edelstein (1:08:10)
Yeah.

Byron (1:08:12)
Yeah. no I I

Chad Kirchner (1:08:14)
Enterprise season two.

Stephen Edelstein (1:08:16)
Yeah.

Byron (1:08:16)
think I think

I'm gonna stick with T N G. And just and not just because it was my on ramp, but just because it is such a good kind of picture of like the ideal future embodiment of Trek. Like the i if we're actually gonna get to where Trek thinks we should go, that's it. And it it's good like fundamental viewing. and also it introduces a lot that I think helps with D S nine and Voyager viewing. Like I that's all that's the same universe. It's the same

Chad Kirchner (1:08:43)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Byron (1:08:46)
I mean it's the exact same continuity all the way through 'cause that's just how th those series worked. But but like it just it gives you like that early taste of like, okay, the unpolished pre beard years, you get to see the show get its footing and then you get to see the kind of like things that they wanted to explore more in the rest of that that era of the show. And that informs a lot of the track being made now. So

Stephen Edelstein (1:08:48)
I mean.

Chad Kirchner (1:09:07)
Rikerd Riker No Beard.

Riker No Beard. Not great Star Trek. Rikerbeard. Good Star Trek. Avery Brooks with hair and no beard. Not not necessarily great. Ri Avery Brooks with no hair and a goatee. Yeah, that's what's up. That's when the studio is like, well, okay, if you really want to, Avery. And like he just opened up more as a character too. Like you could just tell he felt more comfortable and go on, I'm sorry.

Byron (1:09:13)
No. Yeah.

Stephen Edelstein (1:09:29)
Well I

I mean they o they only

made him not do that look at the beginning 'cause of racism because they thought he looked anything. Mm-hmm.

Chad Kirchner (1:09:39)
Yo, yeah, one hundred percent. It was it was all racism.

You know. Do say Stein does address some racism stuff. There's there's there's some stuff in there. Strange New Worlds. I'm sorry, you guys are both wrong. Strange New Worlds is how you introduce somebody to Star Trek this day these days. 'Cause well, okay, so I mean you guys aren't wrong. But I think that if you're used to modern storytelling and modern television storytelling

Stephen Edelstein (1:09:57)
Fair enough.

Chad Kirchner (1:10:09)
I think Strange New Worlds like delivers what I would consider real track. I mean it's all real track, but like the real kind of base core understanding of track. Like in in a way that's digestible in a for a modern kind of viewer and viewer sensibilities. And if you like that, because you don't have to know the canon to to to get what's going on. It helps, but you don't have to know it. and then from there maybe you branch off depending on like we should probably go watch some TOS to see what this was based on.

Depending on if they really liked that or whatever. But I really think I'd start with with with Strange New Worlds, with your space dad. because but also like I think s if you see Space Dad first, like then you can see how much Anson Mount's character is a this homologation of every main captain that came before. He's swashbuckley like Captain Girk. He's he's intel he's diplomatic and

strategic like Picard. He's your space dad like like Sisko. But also willing to cut some corners. Maybe not do everything, you know, down the straight and narrow. and I mean Sisko committed several war crimes that I can think of right off the top of my head. And then and Jane also, yeah. But Jane Way also was a bit of a paternal figure, like a maternal figure. Like and not just 'cause sh she was a woman captain, but like

Byron (1:11:25)
Chainway too.

Stephen Edelstein (1:11:27)
Yeah.

Chad Kirchner (1:11:36)
She would often talk about the crew as family. And you kinda take all of that and like boom, out comes Anson Mount's interpretation of of Captain Pike. I think you can see a little bit of everybody else in in what he does. Cause he's competent but swashbuckley. Like he he he will Corbonite maneuver his way. He'll bluff if he has to, and he'll make Neki with some space aliens if he needs to. But

also like extremely competent, understands, you know, he's kind of your dad who cook for he cooks dinner for you. Yeah. He he grew up in California but he lives in Montana and rides horses. Because you have to if if you're a Star Trek captain, you have to ride horses. There there has to be horses. Which which I saw some stuff from Russia today.

Stephen Edelstein (1:12:25)
Okay, there had to be a horse in there somewhere.

Chad Kirchner (1:12:34)
With their fuel shortage problem, people are started to resort back to horses. so I'm sorry. Yeah, this was not a Putin. This was not a Putin, no shirt. but this is a long and weird segue to say we're not covering horses yet. But Byron, tell people what you do during the day and how they can find you and probably pimp that podcast that you guys that you do, which all

Byron (1:12:38)
Are they wearing shirts? Are they wearing shirts?

Yeah, well so we I I write for the drive dot com. I'm part of the great team over there, the the newest member of the team still, along with Joel. We both joined about a year ago. Actually expect eighteen months? No, not even that long. No, it's been about been a it's just been over a year since Joel Fetter and I joined the drive. And yeah, we have the Drivecast podcast, which a great one to listen to. We get lots of exec interviews on there, lots of exclusive content. If I don't say that I get fined. So look for us thedrive dot com.

Chad Kirchner (1:13:09)
That's weird.

Ha ha ha.

Byron (1:13:28)
Drive on all the various socials and on YouTube. We do monthly video explainers and stuff on there too. hosted by editor-in-chief Kyle Charampsha. Don't say his name wrong. You get fined for that as well. And that's my piece. All chhocolate. Just chick with the cha, cha, cha.

Chad Kirchner (1:13:38)
I was I was gonna say I don't know if I can get it quite right. Like I think I've just always been like Kyle. Yeah. Okay.

I I usually just stop after, hey Kyle. no, great group of people over there. used to do some freelance work for before, did some stuff in the past. Like what you guys are doing. you know, it's kinda hard. I like there's a lot of weirdness kind of in the industry right now and you guys are still trying to stick with a particular voice to try to tail tell a particular story.

Byron (1:13:48)
Yeah, that works.

Thank you.

Chad Kirchner (1:14:09)
So I dig it. Like I think that's more important right now than just, you know, hey, here's this new car, or hey, this whatever, you know. Because AI is gonna come and kill us all. So, you know. So links will be in the show notes for that drive.com. Stephen, sir, where can people find your fantastic written automotive content and also your pretty solid photos? You are you are an ace photographer for for real. Like, I wish I had half your talent.

Stephen Edelstein (1:14:39)
You're too kind. you can find my stuff most frequently on Slashgear.com, cargarus.com, and also the drive dot com on weekends. and my social media is SAE Edelstein. I post most frequently on Blue Sky and Instagram.

Chad Kirchner (1:14:40)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah, Blue Sky, we're all the 38 year olds go. I'm forty two though. So but my birthday is before yours, Byron. So I'm a tiny bit older than you. I'll be forty three next month. Or this month, actually. Ugh. Err. so I'm sorry. yeah, thanks. but

Stephen Edelstein (1:14:59)
Heck yeah.

Byron (1:15:11)
Okay, so yeah, you got a ear on me.

Stephen Edelstein (1:15:13)
Okay.

Happy birthday.

Chad Kirchner (1:15:23)
That will all be in the sh in the show notes. If for some reason you have found this podcast through means that aren't the website, those show notes will be at temporalinvestigations.com where you can also view past episodes and there's also a guests page as well. So you can see each one of these guys' mugs and also click their social links in case you can't find them in the show notes or something weird like that. you can find obviously you can find me here.

Just find me here. That's that's fine. I've been doing some work with Jalobnik and and Ice technical stuff, but that's not really important. Cause you're here to talk about Star Trek. And hopefully, you'll stick around. I just want to say there's been a little bit of gap in recording. my bad, some stuff happened. Didn't have the the the mental capacities to sit and talk about Star Trek for a while. So trying to get back into the swing of things. and I'd like to thank you guys both for

for being here. I don't have a sign out, so hit it.