Chad Kirchner (00:28)
I do really hope that that future Roma got the whole fries becoming his own grandfather from Star Trek, but I don't know. Welcome.

It's so funny, it's my favorite, but I had to put it in the theme song. Welcome to another episode of Temporal Investigations. I am your host, Kirchner, and this is a Star Trek podcast where we talk about weird Star Trek things. And today I have somebody new in the hot seat wanting to talk about a very possibly controversial point. You'll hear me out. But she is a writer, she is an editor.

Nicole (00:57)
Hahaha!

Chad Kirchner (01:06)
as with the history of this podcast, an automotive writer, because that's all the friends I have apparently. ⁓ She is a podcaster, so she's got a proper podcast set up for people watching the video. And ⁓ her favorite series is Those Old Scientists. And her favorite character is Captain, probably not Admiral, probably Captain. There's only Admiral for a little bit. Captain James Tiberius Perfectare.

Nicole (01:24)
Mm-hmm.

Captain, Captain, and when he's captain.

Chad Kirchner (01:35)
which is relevant to what we're doing. Hi Nicole! Nicole Wakelin, everybody.

Nicole (01:39)
Hi, thank you for having me this. This is fun. I always get to talk about cars and I get to talk about nerd stuff. I like that.

Chad Kirchner (01:43)
Yeah,

nerd stuff is fun. I we obviously I think I originally knew you because of nerd stuff. mean, way, way back. ⁓ Way back, like way back machine way back. ⁓ But we are here today to talk about and I recently quoted Perfect Terror, which is ⁓ what what Scotty says in the 2009 reboot. Or no, is it? No, it the second one was almost a bad one into darkness. That was not a good movie.

Nicole (01:50)
Way back, way back.

Ha ha ha!

Yeah.

Chad Kirchner (02:13)
But he calls them he's like, because he calls him drunk and he's like, James Tiberius, perfect error.

Nicole (02:16)
Perfect hair,

James Tiberius Perkers hair, yep.

Chad Kirchner (02:19)
We're talk about the hair in Star Trek, and that's funny. It's funny because ⁓ hair plays a pretty significant role in Star Trek. mean, in science fiction, especially the visual kind, but in Star Trek particularly. So I want to talk a little bit about what I mean, and then Nicole's going to drop her hot take, and then we're going to wonder what's up. So ⁓ when you think about hair...

Nicole (02:21)
Hahaha!

Yes.

Okay, go ahead.

Chad Kirchner (02:47)
you probably think about, especially with modern Star Trek, think about Christopher Pike, Anson Mount specifically, and his like, wolfy bouffant of hair that keeps getting Pike's peak, which when he was in Discovery, like it was okay, but then his first season of ⁓ Strange New Worlds, it just kept getting bigger and bigger and bigger, and the memes started, and his girlfriend slash, I guess,

Nicole (02:56)
It's called Pike's Peak. I've heard it referred to as Pike's Peak.

Mm-hmm.

Chad Kirchner (03:18)
wife ⁓ Battelle, Captain Battelle, even points out like when we talk about moving in together, he's like, well where would we put all of your hair product? So like he's very aware of the hair and it's kind of wild and it's kind of out of control. I guess kind of maybe 1960s Star Trek-y, I suppose. Maybe there's a little bit of just sort of ridiculousness in it.

Nicole (03:27)
Exactly.

Maybe a little bit. don't think they made it. They

don't make it quite that oof fonty, that poofy in the 60s. The style, yes, but the height, no.

Chad Kirchner (03:45)
Yeah.

Yeah, he's, it's very much almost like a character of himself. Because again, it was like normal in Discovery and then it just, in Strange New Worlds, like, let's, which women in 60s sci-fi, especially Star Trek, aliens or whatever, would have the weird, like the weird hair and all of that. like that all kind of tracks. But ⁓ the one thing that I wanted to say about hair specifically is when talking about the original series,

Nicole (04:09)
Yeah, yeah.

Chad Kirchner (04:19)
Gene Roddenberry knew that they needed sort of like a military kind of, because Starfleet's kind of a military organization, they needed sort of like a clean military kind of cut, but they're like, what can we do to make it futuristic? How can we make a haircut look futuristic? Futuristic on a soldier. Pointy sideburns was the answer. So that's the reason why the pointy sideburns started and why they still, they don't.

really kind of kind of a little a little bit depends on the character I mean I'm looking at a picture of Pike of Vance and Mount that little little bit of a point but definitely was the thing through the original series and in through next gen too was like we got to do that's that's how we make it futuristic as we do the pointy sideburns ⁓

Nicole (04:46)
Do they still do that anymore? Do they? I don't think so.

Because you can't have bushy side, sideburns because that's like ancient history in the US. Like when they back, you know, they used to have like the mutton chop thing.

Chad Kirchner (05:18)
Right. yeah,

I need a captain with a mutton chops. That's what

Nicole (05:23)
That's right.

Would you be that captain? be like, he has to wear a tricorder hat then or else it just doesn't work.

Chad Kirchner (05:27)
Yeah.

But yeah, so it's culturally a huge sort of thing. that made a decision. That one decision kind of really carried on through now 60 years of Star Trek, ⁓ especially if the character served on the Starship or on the Enterprise. Like it was definitely required for them to have the pointing sideburn. So.

Nicole when I was talking to her about this I was like okay well give me a take and it kind of makes sense

Nicole (06:03)
No, he asked

me, he said, what hill would you die on? I believe is the question that you asked me. What hill would I die on?

Chad Kirchner (06:07)
What hill would you die on? And

it has to do with hair, but explain.

Nicole (06:14)
Well, you asked me what hill I would die on. My first answer was that I think Captain Kirk is better than Picard, even though everybody thinks, I think everyone votes Picard. You're all wrong. What, that everyone votes Picard?

Chad Kirchner (06:24)
I don't know if I completely agree with that take.

I have a take on Picard that I don't necessarily know if he was all that great of a captain. I think he was a good diplomat, but I think that like he didn't beat the Borg, Ryker beat the Borg. ⁓

Nicole (06:33)
I think Kirk-

That's true. So who's a better

captain, Kirk or Picard?

Cause that was the original Hill.

Chad Kirchner (06:47)
Picard's a better

diplomat, I Kirk's probably a better captain.

Nicole (06:50)
OK, because I think Kirk is a better captain for a million different reasons. And I just think he's more swashbuckly and he he's not afraid to break the rules. Picard breaks the rules like nicely. He's kind of polite about it when he breaks them most of the time. And Kirk is like, back with you. I'm doing it this way that'll fix it.

Chad Kirchner (06:54)
Well, it's more swashbuckly.

I think Kirk's character, especially with the rule breaking, think that was supposed to be almost like a trope because the very first episode of Strangely New Worlds at the very end, they're sitting around Admiral April and Pike and number one are sitting there, and finally Admiral April was read into what happened at the end of Discovery, signing into the 32nd century.

Nicole (07:25)
Yeah.

Chad Kirchner (07:34)
He's like, he's like, well, the council's really upset, but they won't do anything about it because they would have to admit that this happened. And so they're definitely admit the violation of prime directive happened. And, he's like, they're really pissed off. They're like, they're probably going to change it from being general order one to be called the prime directive. And Pike's like, yeah, I don't think that'll stick. And like, it's such a, it's just an off the cuff line, but it's very much homage to like Kirk's absolute refusal.

Nicole (07:54)
Exactly.

Chad Kirchner (08:03)
to follow the prime directive. ⁓

Nicole (08:06)
He disregards it all the time, but he fixes things. He resolves things. I think he does most of the time. He doesn't resolve them prettily,

Chad Kirchner (08:09)
Does he? Like that's what I liked about

Okay, I mean, he obviously doesn't resolve things particularly well because Khan just left him on a planet. He's like, here I go and never come never come back and check.

Nicole (08:24)
Well, but you know, it's fine for how many years?

How many years is he good with Khan being left on the planet? The bad guy left for a long time. works for long time.

Chad Kirchner (08:29)
But you gotta

check on your space seeds, and he didn't. And his space seeds grew into... Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, that's still gross. yeah.

Nicole (08:34)
That movie scared the crap that when they have the thing that goes in his ear or to this day, that still

gives me the heebie jeebies that scared me so bad. I wasn't even really a kid when I saw that, but I was like, Oh, no, I can't. it's it's it's awful. It was the awfulest of all the Star Trek scenes in terms of making me squeamish. You me have to look away. I couldn't watch. I'm like, no, no, no, no, no,

Chad Kirchner (08:45)
Yeah, it's... No, no, it's a good horror scene. Like, it's really...

Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's...

No, it's really bad, the Centaurian slugs. ⁓ But... Yeah, I don't know, he doesn't... Like, and the whole idea of Lower Decks was to go back in and do second contact because Starfleet's so terrible at first contacts. Right.

Nicole (09:15)
They are terrible at first contacts. mean, they mess it up all the time. They're constantly

messing up first contacts, but that was literally Kirk's thing was go make a bunch of first contacts cowboy. Go for it. And it was probably not the right man for the job, truly in terms of like, hello, we come in peace. We would like to meet you. That probably wasn't his best mission. Right. Maybe we should have a slightly.

Chad Kirchner (09:27)
Bye. Bye.

I mean, not.

Yeah, so we're going to have this swashbuckly guy who wears his heart on his sleeve, takes

gambles a little too much.

Nicole (09:43)
Yeah, maybe

a calmer captain would have been better for the job. That said, I still think he did a good job at it. Because when things go bad, when things go south...

Chad Kirchner (09:49)
Well, and Pike

is kind of like the mix of all of the captains. Like he's got the squashbuck holiness of Kirk, but he does the diplomacy of Picard and the space deadness of Cisco. Like he can cook like Cisco and kind of, you know, really has like a I'll die for you kind of affinity for the crew like Jane Whitehead. So like, it's kind of like all of them. He's supposed to be more Kirk, is supposed to be more Kirk, but he clearly is.

Nicole (09:54)
Yes.

Mm-hmm.

Yes.

Squished into one. Yeah. I think he's I

think he's a little bit of all of them, but I do think he leans heavily towards Kirk because he I think he's closer to the. Yeah, he's more towards the swashbuckly thing, towards the slightly rule breaker. Yeah, I think he likes that. I was so I was terrified of Pike in the original series when he makes his appearance in his little wheelchair thing with his face all burned and scarred.

Chad Kirchner (10:23)
I think Janssen-Mont likes the Smash Buckley stuff.

Yeah. I mean, he likes being swashbuckled. Yeah. I think it's fun.

out

Nicole (10:44)
my God, because

also my dad used to watch that series when I was too little to probably be watching it. So the effects felt very real and I was very scared. I remember seeing him. I was terrified of him. I thought he was super, super scary. Yeah. Don't scare me for life. Any further than I already am. he used to scare the heck of me. So the fact that he was, ⁓ night he's he's got him in his pike's peak, his big hair. I'm like, okay. Cause initially when they came out, said,

Chad Kirchner (10:50)
Right.

oop oop

Boop.

Nicole (11:09)
I'm not watching this. I'm scared of him. My husband's like, no, he's not there yet. OK, as long as he's just a regular man and he's not terrifying. He does. He learns how it impacts. Right. That impacts all of the ⁓ well, his decisions or maybe it doesn't. He just knows what his destiny is.

Chad Kirchner (11:12)
you

But he does learn that he does learn that's how he ends up. That's kind of spooky because they put him in that chair.

What? I mean, it's kind

of a cool, it's a cool idea that he, that he, that we know what happens to him, but we also know what happens to him. He doesn't. He knows what happens up until the accident, but he doesn't know that he ends up back on Talos and is okay. Yeah.

Nicole (11:34)
Yes.

Yes, right.

He doesn't know the full story. has

sort of like, this is where I am, but exactly how I got there remains to be seen.

Chad Kirchner (11:50)
Yeah, so I think

it's kind of a fun twist because we're all in on it and we know Noah when he only kind of knows, but he thinks he knows. I think that's a fun dynamic. The only downside to the prequel that I think is kind of annoying is there was this one episode last season in Strangely Worlds where Kirk was in command of the Farragut and all of that, where he was learning how to be a captain and was kind of... It was a good episode for...

Nicole (11:59)
Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Chad Kirchner (12:20)
character development but there was no risk because every single character on the varagance bridge were named characters that appear in the original series so you knew yeah it's like the it's like the lightsaber battle at the end of obi-wan at the end of obi-wan amazing amazing fight scene graphics are great the way the voice changes depending on which character like lightsaber color like

Nicole (12:29)
You know everyone's gonna live, you're like, you're not dying. You're not dying. You're not dying.

Yeah, yes, right.

But you know that Obi-Wan is not dying right there. Yeah.

Chad Kirchner (12:50)
technically a brilliant fight scene with absolutely no stakes and it's like like

Nicole (12:56)
But I feel, you know what though, I feel like that

you're totally right on Star Wars, but sometimes on Star Trek, they, and I know they are not doing that, but they sometimes mess with things. You know, there's the whole time and space and wibbly wobbly timey wimey thing that they mess with. you never, so you always have a little, right? So, you have exactly. So you have a little, yeah, a little question mark. Like they should all be fine. They should. 99.9 % sure.

Chad Kirchner (13:08)
sure. Sure, they do that a lot. I mean, that's kind of like the whole premise of this podcast. So

Bye bye.

Nicole (13:26)
But you don't know what the series is going to do. They could always throw a wrench in the works, temporal abnormalities.

Chad Kirchner (13:33)
So, but your theory goes, your take isn't that Kirk's the better captain. No. Who's the better captain, Pike or Kirk?

Nicole (13:39)
Well, that is what I.

I still say, well, didn't ask me that one before. Dang it. I think. I.

Chad Kirchner (13:49)
Well, if you're gonna like, if we have to rank them, you

know, and I know where you're gonna go with like Cisco because we're gonna talk about that in a second. But like, where do you, that's really sad because I like Cisco. Even though he's a war criminal. But

Nicole (13:57)
Cisco always bored me. No, think I know I don't dislike them. just like Cisco. Whatever. See? Yeah.

I still like Kirk, but I think can I can I make it like. Just a skosh, can I put them like on one Kirk is one and Pike is like.

Chad Kirchner (14:18)
one size to be better than the other.

Nicole (14:20)
just this much better. You can't see me holding up my fingers, but see the difference? See that tiny, tiny, there's a tiny little difference. My nails are just right on top of each other. That's how much difference.

Chad Kirchner (14:21)
Sure. Yeah, because podcasting is an audio medium.

Yeah, I don't, mean, how did Pike handle the Kobayashi Maru? That's the question.

Nicole (14:35)
I-

Yeah. Well, how did he handle the Kobayashi? I can't even say it. What did he do? Did he fail it too? I don't even know. Okay. I was like, we don't know that. We know that Kirk figured it out because he cheats, cheat to win, cheat to win. That's a chant at our local, fest, our run fair, cheat to win, cheat to win for the, for the side of the guys jousting, you know, the bad guys. so, so I think, so I, I like Kirk because I think Kirk did things.

Chad Kirchner (14:44)
I don't know, we don't know, they don't talk about it. We don't know. Cheats. You're cheats.

⁓ yeah.

but Pike has better hair.

Nicole (15:08)
He,

but Pike has better hair. And I do think the hair is so, okay. So that's where my real theory goes in. So here's the hot take the better, the hair, the better the captain. like that's like captain Pike has really good hair. Like you can't argue that's some seriously good hair and he just cool stuff. And he's really doing a great job. Kirk has these weird funky to pay things from the thing. It's still cool. He's got his like little Kirk to pay happening.

Chad Kirchner (15:14)
Here's the high take.

yeah. ⁓

Great.

Two Pays are cool.

Nicole (15:37)
He's got his little 60s vibe going on. But the other really cool hair captain is Janeway, the bun of steel. Janeway with the bun of steel, that gets credit for Janeway being, mean, that bun was more sturdy than the ship was. The ship would fall apart. Janeway's hair, perfect. the hair defines, sometimes defines, if you have really good hair going on.

Chad Kirchner (15:44)
yes, I'm having this.

you

Maybe

24th century haircuts or hair products are, know, just isn't it a little, isn't it a little ⁓ disingenuous though that like the hair stays in one place while the whole ship's on fire.

Nicole (16:05)
designed to withstand.

I don't know if you ever put a lot of hairspray in your hair, I was a teenager in the 80s Chad ⁓ I am pretty sure that there is an amount of hairspray you could put in your hair that that that it could blow up you will go into space and your hair would still be stuck the way that you had it on the bridge. It would just stay there. ⁓

Chad Kirchner (16:19)
No.

I mean, I guess

in Voyager in Year of Hell, she tries to keep her hair up, but occasionally it'll be... Yeah, yeah, or when she has to play commando. So you're saying that both Sisko and Picard are bad captains.

Nicole (16:41)
and occasionally a stranger too comes down. ⁓ No, it's.

Picard is Picard's a good cat. didn't say bad. You're putting words in my mouth, Chad. I said better. No, you can have, but it doesn't know. But in a scale of one to 10, you don't have to have a one in a 10. You can have a 10, nine and eight, which are all pretty good.

Chad Kirchner (16:55)
Well, you have to have good or bad. The bigger the hair, the better the captain. You have to have a bad.

then does the scale even matter then? Because you have a bottom and a top of the scale.

Nicole (17:08)
Yes, it does because somewhere, somewhere there's

captains that we haven't seen. Hopefully Starfleet isn't giving us any ones. Hopefully Starkey fleet is only giving us five to tens. That's going to be there. They were not going to see the story of the five, the four zeros because those guys got blown up. They destroyed their ships. They, we never saw them. They got blown up. That's my theory. Those guys got blown up. If you're a four to a zero captain, if you're low on the Starfleet list of, you weren't

Chad Kirchner (17:16)
Who has the best, who has the best hair?

They have blown out

Nicole (17:36)
You were in the bottom of your graduating class at Starfleet Academy. We never see you because you're dead in a second. You're the red shirt of captains. So you're not there. So the captains we see that we're seeing stories about are all eight, nine, 10 captains. They're all eight, nine, 10 captains, varying degrees within eight, nine, and 10, but they're all eight, nine, 10 captains.

Chad Kirchner (17:43)
Okay.

Nicole (17:58)
You don't think that's. They wouldn't be right if you're if you're one captain, what are you doing? You're just like shuttling quadrachiticale to a planet or something. Yeah, how we get wheat to a planet somewhere and and then dropping it off and going back for more wheat. Who wants to see wheat delivery? Nobody. So so the wheat delivery captain who's a one, he never has any time on camera. But these guys, these guys are the ones who legends are told.

Chad Kirchner (17:58)
Right after they wouldn't be interesting like they wouldn't be interested in the watch if they weren't

Quadratriticale wheat. Wheat.

shibbles.

Nicole (18:28)
Legends are told. Legendary hair. Janeway's bun of steel. Pike's peak. Kirk's hair was good. Kirk's hair didn't have phenomenal hair, but he had acceptable 1960s hair. I feel like if he was that character, if they filmed that today, he would have more like Pike hair. They do something floofy, different.

Chad Kirchner (18:29)
legendary hair is told.

Jan Wispikes.

Well,

how'd they deal with the 2009 reboot?

Nicole (18:58)
What with Kirk Pyke, with Kirk's hair in that?

Chad Kirchner (19:02)
Yeah, what was I'm trying to remember what Kirk's haircut was in the 2009 movie.

Nicole (19:06)
It

got floofier. Wait, I'm trying.

Chad Kirchner (19:10)
I mean, that's why

they, I mean, that's why he, that's what they call him perfect hair.

Nicole (19:16)
I mean, he always, he does have pretty cool hair.

Look at his hair. He's got he's got a do going on. He has it like like he looks pretty good. He's got decent hair. He's got the pointy sideburns a little bit. They kind of come to a point.

Chad Kirchner (19:23)
you

He has a deal.

And when he's a kid, when he's a kid, he steals the corvette, he's got the long bangs, or the real floofy.

Nicole (19:39)
He's got the long, floofy, like teeny bopper hair. Like I always think of it as Justin

Bieber hair. I don't know why, though, when it's like too much in your face. That's Justin Bieber hair.

Chad Kirchner (19:48)
Right.

It is very Bieber. It's Bieber. It's Bieber-esque. Bieber-esque, yeah.

Nicole (19:54)
Right? Bieber-esque.

Right. But what's this? I can't I can't remember the actor, the plate. Why can't I think of this actors and Chris Pine, Chris Pine's hair. He's got so he's his hair is floofy. But Kirk had good hair for the 60s. He had very in line with 60s military air. Yeah, his hair was awful. But the 70s movies was the 70s or late 80s. When did the movies come out? The first 70s. That was a function of the 70s. That everyone's hair was

Chad Kirchner (20:03)
Chris Pine, why couldn't I remember Chris Pine?

It's got a lot of flu- ⁓

It didn't get bad in so the movies his hair was bad in the movies

seven is.

Nicole (20:29)
A little odd, but when you look at the contemporary stuff they gave him little floof he's got like pike light.

Chad Kirchner (20:34)
Yeah.

He does have some Pike Lake, especially again, Chris Pine's hair for sure. It's definitely like a clean cut kind of a military kind of thing, but still has kind of the poof going on.

Nicole (20:41)
Yeah, see?

Right?

Right? He's still

got the poof happening. I feel like the poof is important. The hair is important, man. That makes for a decent captain. But his hair was fine. In the 60s thing, his hair is good. He's got good hair for the 60s.

Chad Kirchner (21:02)
Do know that Kirk's character was supposed to be 50 years old, in his 50s in Rathagon and those movies when he talks about being old and useless and yeah, make you feel old.

Nicole (21:10)
was he really? He's 50. How does that

supposed to be? Wait, how is he supposed to be little? Don't don't wait. Don't they live well over 100 in Star Trek? Why did I think humans lived much longer than we do now? Weren't they like a isn't like 120, 130.

Chad Kirchner (21:20)
sometimes.

Yeah, well, Nicole

lived 114, 115 or whatever. Presumably, care gets better in.

Nicole (21:27)
Right? So they live a good 30 years plus longer than we do.

Well, they can just wave a little. I forgot what it's called. They wave that they wave that over you and then you're better. Your bones are healed and yeah.

Chad Kirchner (21:39)
Yeah, for real.

Okay, what about Spock here? What about Vulcan here?

Nicole (21:49)
Vulcan hair doesn't count because Vulcans have their own. Vulcans can't like, like it'll.

Chad Kirchner (21:53)
Vulcans aren't

captains, mean, well they are in some cases, but you know.

Nicole (21:56)
Well, they

are in some cases. Let me wait. got to pull up Spock hair. I got to look at it. Yeah, but they have to have that really harsh cut. The bowl cut. So you can't you can't judge Balkan Balkans Balkans by the same standards as humans in terms of hair. The bowl cut. The Vulcan bowl cut is a thing. Vulcans have bad hair. You know why one can't be concerned with trivialities like vanity is the Vulcan.

Chad Kirchner (22:05)
after that bowl cut

you

Nicole (22:22)
So you're just going to cut

it so it's out of your eyes, easy to maintain. I'm surprised they don't just shave their heads. That would be very Vulcan. Right. Just shave their heads and then just once every, I don't know, how long does it take for your hair to grow back if you shaved your head? I don't know.

Chad Kirchner (22:32)
It would be the Robbins.

The only

thing I know about time with Vulcans is Ponfarr every seven years. hey, hey, hold on, hold on, hold on.

Nicole (22:42)
Hanfar. I have an ornament.

What?

Chad Kirchner (22:49)
I'll that queued up.

great. but anyway, ⁓ Scott Baccala- Scott Baccala didn't really- all he did was trim his hair. I'm pretty sure that's just Scott Baccala hair.

Nicole (22:55)
There we go.

I think he didn't look any different at all. He just looks like Scott Bakula. Like I'm pulling up a picture him. His hair was kind of boring. And what do we think about him as a captain? Mm hmm. See? But he does. I just looked up a picture. He has he has he has he has the pointing sign burns, but his hair is totally boring and he is not a memorable captain. See?

Chad Kirchner (23:03)
Now, yeah.

Thank you for pointing.

very boring. He does have the pointy sideburns though. He is canonically, yeah, he is canonically there.

I mean for supposedly the guy that has two planets named after him. I mean the real tra- the real tragedy is taking somebody as charismatic as Scott Batkiller and making him boring. that's

Nicole (23:30)
I mean, whatever.

Because he is a great I actually really like Scott Bakula, but I will always think of him from ⁓ quantum leap. He will be the quantum

leap guy till the end of time.

Chad Kirchner (23:46)
Right. following your logic, then okay, so what's wrong with Picard? What don't you like about Picard?

Nicole (23:49)
Yes.

I don't dislike Picard. I just think Picard follows the rules more. I like less about Picard is that he's too dry and stoic. He very rarely just behaves like a human. Like, you know, Kirk is a man underneath there. He's a human. He's got some comedy. He's got some, I feel like Kirk seems more human. Picard's is a little too buttoned up.

Chad Kirchner (23:54)
Well, what do you like less about? What do you like less about?

Nicole (24:21)
He's, you know, the straight in the uniform. does that. He's always, uniforms gotta be perfect. Straighten that uniform. Make sure your pips are properly lined up. But you know what? I just did that to my jacket and that works. at it. Look at that. That little straight, that actually works. If a car maneuver just fixed my jacket. Okay. I mean.

Chad Kirchner (24:29)
I ⁓

Okay.

But isn't he

kind of King Lear-ish? I don't know. I mean, there's a lot of Shakespeare. You probably see some the other... I mean, he is Shakespearean, so, and mean, Star Trek is Shakespeare, so... In Spurrrst!

Nicole (24:45)
Well, it's.

He is. It is. But you asked me what I like less. I like less that he's

not he's not as charismatic as Kirk was. Kirk smiled. Kirk laughed. Kirk was more. Kirk was more jovial. He was a little bit more engaging. He was a little bit like man of the people. And Picard is like, I am the captain. I shall tell you what to do because I'm captain.

Chad Kirchner (25:00)
Yeah, there isn't a lot of...

Okay, so.

Okay, so you're saying

Benjamin Lafayette-Siscoe wasn't charismatic? What was your problem with him?

Nicole (25:17)
I didn't even finish watching the whole series. I gave up at one point. I didn't watch to the very end of this. I didn't. I was, I got bored. I'm sorry. I watched it for a long, wasn't it? How many, how many seasons did it have? Okay. I probably watched five.

Chad Kirchner (25:18)
Why was he boring? Why do you think Cisco's boring? How do you? That's, that's disturbing. That's, that's bad. Wow. That's a hot take. Seven.

So you missed like all the good stuff. You missed all of the Jeffrey Combs as we in.

Nicole (25:40)
I'll

watch it eventually.

Chad Kirchner (25:42)
and the dominion war and the war crimes and cisco going you bitch i charge you with a farm he's holo he's he's he's got charisma

Nicole (25:47)
I-

Oh my goodness. That was very dramatic. Maybe that's, I'd like a more, if I thought it was too much.

No, actually I like Cisco. I don't actually, I like Cisco better than Picard. Cause I think Cisco still comes off more human than Picard does. He has his moments where he's very much the buttoned up, like I am in charge of things, but he has, he's very, he has his son Jake, right? He's got Jake. So he has, he's a family guy and he has personal stuff going on and he's, he's not.

Chad Kirchner (25:58)
Okay.

Okay.

So let me open, I

gotta keep track of this. So let's open the notes app here on my computer. open notes. So you have, so if we were to rank your captains, you've got so far Pike is at the top of the list. No, Kirk is at top of the list. Pike and then.

Nicole (26:18)
What? no. ⁓ God.

Kirk is at the top of the list. Kirk, then Pike,

then I'm going to put Scott. We're not doing a hair ranking. So Kirk, then Pike, then maybe, wait, maybe let me, let me go write it down here. Wait, I got to get all my captains. Janeway. What was Scott Bacula's captain? I can't remember his name. Archer, jeez Louise. Archer, who else? So you have Kirk, Pike, Cisco, Janeway, Archer.

Chad Kirchner (26:34)
No, we're not ranking by hair. We'll do a hair ranking, but let's ⁓

Yeah, J-Way. Archer. So that was an archer.

⁓ You have ⁓ Jason Isaacs as, because you remember Discovery Season 1, Jason Isaacs was the captain of the Defiant, or rather the Defiant of Discovery. ⁓ So you have Jason Isaacs in Season 1. Season 2 was kind of instant out of spite, so whatever. And then finally, Sneakle Martin, Martin Green gets to be captain. ⁓

Nicole (27:08)
yeah. That's that's right. Okay.

Chad Kirchner (27:26)
Why can't I remember her character's name right now? That's really, ⁓ Burnham. Yeah, Michael Burnham.

Nicole (27:30)
Burn them.

I kind of like, okay. So, okay. So number one is Kirk. Number two is Pike.

Number three is Cisco. Number four is Picard. I'm writing this on a list that I'm going to go five is Janeway.

Chad Kirchner (27:44)
Okay.

Nicole (27:50)
Archers last. Then I'm going to go.

Six with Jason Isaac, seven with...

Chad Kirchner (27:59)
Jason 96

was um, what was his name? Jason 96 was so good in Death of Stalin. My god. Um, Jason 96.

Nicole (28:04)
I can't remember that. I'm like remembering the actor, not the character.

So he's six,

then seven is yes. And then Burnham, she bugged me a little bit. And then Archer is last, so that's eight. That's my ranking as I'm sitting here scribbling on a piece of paper put on the spot on the podcast.

Chad Kirchner (28:16)
yeah, Gabriel Lorca. Yeah. So Lorca and then Burnham.

Okay, so, our turn is last. Do you wanna put...

So we're gonna skip, we're still skipping some captains here though, because we have the Beckett Mariner's mom.

Nicole (28:37)
Who we skipping?

Say it again, who?

Chad Kirchner (28:44)
Mariner, Beckett Mariner's mom.

from lower dex. was her name? can't I remember her name? That's sad. Because that's the best. Oh yeah, Carol Freeman.

Nicole (28:50)
from Lower Decks. I didn't watch Lower, I didn't watch enough Lower Decks to rank that one.

I just, I, yeah, I just didn't get enough. I know. I, we start, we, always watch it and then I never finish.

So I can't rank her.

Chad Kirchner (29:05)
⁓ And you also can't rank ⁓ Todd Stachwick's character, was Liam Shaw, because you didn't watch Picard.

Nicole (29:16)
No, I did watch some of Picard. Was he the one? ⁓ I don't know if I saw him. Yeah, if I season through his last season, I didn't see him.

Chad Kirchner (29:20)
This is season three.

⁓ Yeah,

so and then you have ⁓ Rios, Captain Rios of the La Sierna, guy that smoked the cigars in the first season of Picard, season one, season two of Picard.

Nicole (29:35)
Does

he count? he even?

Chad Kirchner (29:37)
He's a captain. We were talking about main character captains. He was... Yes.

Nicole (29:40)
Oh, I guess he's a main character captain.

He wasn't very... I don't know. I don't know how feel about him. He literally made such little impression on me that I forgot he existed.

Chad Kirchner (29:47)
And then.

and then you don't have Captain Nala from Struggle with Academy.

Nicole (30:00)
I have not watched our fleet academy yet it's on my list, but I have not watched that yet I told you earlier, I got distracted by peaky blinders I know i'm out of the loop but.

Chad Kirchner (30:07)
Right.

But yeah, so, Of the ones we can rank, no, but you, you're talking about hair. All right, so now, of those characters, have Kirk, Pike, Sisca, Picard, Janway, Lorca, Burnham, and Archer. Now, rank them by hair.

Nicole (30:14)
Do you make everybody do this?

Rank them by hair. ⁓ Pike has the best hair.

Chad Kirchner (30:31)
Yeah.

Nicole (30:36)
And then Janeway because of her bun of steel.

And then Kirk. And I think Cisco pulls off bald better than Picard.

Chad Kirchner (30:49)
Yeah, he didn't have he wasn't bald the first two seasons because the studio didn't want didn't want the black man to be bald with facial hair and then he pushed back enough that season three

Nicole (30:55)
Well, well. He looks cool with the ball here, the card

that I put number five. And then the others don't do there. There are the zero one, two, threes of hair rankings. Like, don't they're they're just not, you know, my scale of zero captains to 10 captains being the best. I can't even rank them. They're just meh.

Chad Kirchner (31:14)
Right.

OK.

Nicole (31:19)
But Pike has the best hair. You know, his hair reminds me of heavy. Queer Eye for the strike guy. I can't think of his name. That character. He has the best. He has he has Pike like hair. Wait, what is his name? I'm going to find it. No, I Google cool, queer, gave with a cool hair and it gave me the long hair guy. No, it's not. It's a shorter tan France. That's his name.

Chad Kirchner (31:23)
Yeah.

Yeah, I Yeah, I know what you're talking about.

Yeah, yeah,

yeah.

Nicole (31:49)
Tan France has hair like Pike. So there you go. Or Pike has hair like Tan France. I don't know which way that actually goes. Tan France should be a captain. Can you mention that captain? It would be the most well-dressed cast ever.

Chad Kirchner (32:00)
Yeah.

Well, yeah, they wouldn't have uniforms.

Nicole (32:09)
They would all have something else. Every time there was a formal thing where he didn't have to wear a uniform, he'd look fabulous. He would.

Chad Kirchner (32:14)
Okay,

so if people listening are like, ⁓ she's way wrong about everything and wants to tell you about that, ⁓ where can they find you, Nicole? What do you?

Nicole (32:26)
God, do I really want to let people stalk

me? ⁓ You can find me online. You can argue with me on Twitter. You could argue with me. Actually, I'd love an argument on our Twitter X, whatever you want to call it. It's just my name at Nicole Wakelin. I'm sure Chad will put it in show notes somewhere if anybody needs to spell it. If you look for that, you will find me on Twitter. You will find me on Instagram. ⁓ Yeah, those are the easiest ways to argue with me. If you if you so choose.

Chad Kirchner (32:34)
Please don't argue with her on Twitter.

I will, there'll be a...

Thank

Nicole (32:54)
Choose to argue with me there and I will have fun as long as you're nice ⁓ Be nice be nice arguers don't be a jerk. Yeah. Yeah exactly Wesley crusher

Chad Kirchner (32:58)
That's, that's, yes, that's good. Be nice. Don't be, don't be, don't be a jerk. As Wil Beaton says, don't be a dick. ⁓

Anything work, anything you're working on that you want to talk about that's maybe not Star Trek, but whatever.

Nicole (33:11)
I, yeah, I'll

throw out just a couple of randoms. So I'm editor in chief at a site called test miles. I also write for top speed and I have a podcast about cars. If you're interested in cars, uh, called wheel bearings. So those are my big things you have. No, cause normally you're filling in for me. It's normally me who's not available and they're looking to fix my fill my spot. So yeah, you've been standing Nicole more than once.

Chad Kirchner (33:22)
Which I have guest hosted a few times, but I've never been on there with Nicole Because normally I'm filling in for Nicole

Yes, that's okay. Sam is like, her co-host like, I need somebody to help me on like Sunday and it'll be like Saturday afternoon. I'm like, sure, I'm good for it. No, it's okay. He's given me more advance before like

Nicole (33:44)
I know we try, we try to plan to be able to every now and then that you think I,

we try to get better now. think, are you going to be around next Sunday? Are we all here? Are we all at home?

Chad Kirchner (33:55)
Yeah,

I'm trying to plan another episode with like Steven Edelstein and Byron Hurd from The Drive and like... Oh yeah, yeah, big nerds. Yeah, we have a lot of... I explained the Kelvin timeline to Stephanie Brin like a month or couple months ago. Uh-huh. Caller me shocked.

Nicole (34:00)
Yeah.

Are they both nerds too? God, I've missed this about our colleagues.

Wait, is Stephanie a nerd? Holy bejesus!

How did I not know this? Okay, so you know how they have the, you know how in New York they have the Jewish auto writers, Seder, Passover Seder, and everyone goes, I think we need the version of that in New York that's like the nerd get together. We got to find someplace to go.

Chad Kirchner (34:23)
⁓ yeah.

Yep.

I am telling

you, bring, know, some people find out, like you find out they're nerdy about something and they're suddenly like, yeah, like.

whatever. it's, it's wild. Well, and I think that's why like, I know that early on this podcast is going to be very automotive colleague heavy because those are my friends. But there's also a lot of my automotive colleagues that are like, Star Trek nerds, like nerds, but also like Star Trek nerds. So like that works out. So ⁓ for those who want to hear more Star Trek nerdery,

Nicole (34:49)
Right.

Yeah. Yeah.

Chad Kirchner (35:02)
If you like the podcast, make sure you subscribe to it. It's available wherever you all find podcasts are distributed and non-fine podcasts like this one. is also show notes and everything can be found on the website or below depending on how you're listening to this. That's temporalinvestigations.com. If you like the show, I hope you do. I really do hope you do. Share it with a friend. Give it a like if you're listening on YouTube. Share it with a friend. Leave a review.

That's the best way to goose the podcast algorithms. ⁓ And if for some reason you're like, I really want to support them a bit more, we do have a Patreon that links in the show notes. ⁓ Nicole, it's been fun. I think our member, I think for those listening just to tease our member exclusive stuff, that was probably longer than our regular discussion. But ⁓

Nicole (35:36)
Mm-hmm.

This has been fun. Thanks for asking me on the show.

Chad Kirchner (35:56)
I do hope you'll come back, I've got some ideas for some stuff that I think would be really fun and you're one of my first automotive friends that I made doing this business and happens to be a major, Bill, major nerd, which I think helps a lot. ⁓ thanks again for listening and I don't have a sign off yet. I feel like the sign offs are like trying to be like a captain trying to be like, what's the word? Like is it like...

Nicole (36:00)
Absolutely anytime.

Yes, same, same.

Yeah.

you got to come up with one.

Chad Kirchner (36:23)
I mean, I'm an old school fan. Like I prefer engage for like the captain thing. I don't really like, I don't like, I don't like hit it. ⁓ Let's fly is, I think let's fly is kind of dumb. I do like Rikers from lower decks, the ⁓ five, six, seven, eight kind of, know, in the, in this, whatever he does, the jazz sort of thing. And they're all like, jazz. I'll try to.

Nicole (36:27)
Yeah, well you can't do that. You need your own.

That makes me feel like music should happen. Hit it.

I think this is your mission. But between now and the next time that I'm on your podcast, you need an

exit some way like whatever, like, let's go or see.

Chad Kirchner (36:54)
Yeah, yeah, for sure. Well, until I come, yeah, let's go. Then there

was that one episode of Strangest New Worlds where Spock was supposed to have one and then like he goes to do it and they cut it off. We never learned what it is. We never learned, never learned what it is.

Nicole (37:06)
You never learn what he did. That's right. It's a mystery. It's

going to be boring. It's Spock. It's just going to be like, please move forward. ⁓ Make ship go. Bye, everyone.

Chad Kirchner (37:12)
It's funny. Make the ship go. I'd like to go now, please. Thanks for listening, everybody.